My background is Roman Catholic; intellectual lower-middle class [on] my mother's side, and blue-collar lower-middle class on my father's. I usually call myself bi-kinky, but I don't like to go to bed in a vanilla way with people of the [same] sex, so I [am] heterosexual in that [respect]. It also depends on what you call sex. I don't call S&M sex; I call S&M erotic play. I will play with men [or] women of any sexual orientation--gay, lesbian, straight, bisexual crossdressers, transsexuals. [It] doesn't matter to me in terms of the S&M play.

I'm a very passionate person. When I did theater, I thought [theater]. And when I came to America, I had no intention of going back. I like to jump into [a] thing and explore it all the way. So [when] I started playing, [I went] to all of the things I could possibly go to [that were] S&M-oriented. I started playing with leathermen, as a bottom to them and as a top to my own private partner. [With] a gay leatherman it [was] S&M, not going to bed together. [It] stayed in the dungeon, the playroom. So I came out as a switch.

Besides making a living at S&M, I get sexually turned-on by it. I feel alive. I look at the whole thing as a dance. [There is a lengthy] courting dance of light S&M and progressive build-up. The whole beginning is for them. The courting [continues] until the person is ready. [And then] I enjoy taking people to their limits and a bit past [them]. That might mean [giving] two more or three more [blows with] the cane, or turning up the electricity just a little bit more, or keeping them in bondage and [having them] beg just a little more. Those five minutes are for me; that is my payback and my enjoyment for all the energy and work I [invest].

While they're giving me a little more than what they really want to they're [still] not calling the safe word. Strangely enough, very few people want safe words. They just think they have to have them. I will give them a slowdown safe word. If they [use that], I will honor it and slow down but I won't stop the scene completely: I might go back to it. If they are into very stringent activity, I will give them a stop safe word. I pride myself that no has ever had to use a stop word with me. Also, for my own certainty, if a session involves a gag or heavy bondage, I will give them a safe gesture or a safe sound.

[During] the warm-up I [develop] feelings of closeness with the people I'm working on, an understanding of them. I [appreciate] the aesthetics of what I'm doing that's specifically pleasing to them. And [there's a spirit] of play. When I get to my own personal enjoyment--true sadism--I get turned on. I get aroused by that moment where I'm pushing limits.

Usually people who do professional S&M write something like, "Your fantasies realized." What I write is, "Cleo's fantasies," and I list the fantasies that turn me on. There are a few fantasies that turn me on, not many. [They all have] an element of being pushed: if you are a captive or prisoner, you get pushed. You're not a slave. So I like captivity fantasies. I also like embarrassing fantasies because of my strange sense of humor. Embarrassing fantasy [expresses] my intellect, my humor. I like to make people do things that they wouldn't [ordinarily do]. I like to embarrass someone, because I can play with that embarrassment psychologically. It's a mental game. My own sense of sarcasm [can] come out and play. I find that 99% of the people I see are turned on by challenging some taboo.

A part of my psychological [satisfaction] is [having] fun. I like to be mischievous. I like to poke at people: poke them with physical objects, like sterile needles, and poke at them with humiliation and mind games. Sometimes I like to get somebody into stringent bondage and just laugh [or] make comments, because it's aesthetically funny. But I'm not a slave trainer. I am not [one to] train people to stand in the corner [or] wait on me perfectly. I've never been comfortable with that. It is not my forte to train people for service; I train them to become better masochists and to accept more input. [That's why] I work on the kind of people who are a challenge, for whom embarrassment [drives] barriers down [so] they become more submissive.

I believe in being myself in the dungeon. Being myself [means having] a sense of humor. If I do something that is wrong, [if] I tell somebody, "Stand up" and I forget that I tied a knot to their balls and they cannot stand up, I'm not going to cover up. I say, "Oops! I made a mistake. Mistresses are not perfect, ha-ha!" That's me. This is one of the reasons why I don't take fantasy slaves. Fantasy slaves tend to think that you're always dressed in a corset and high-heel shoes and always act a certain way. I tell people that it's not so. That's my part in demystifying [S&M]. If somebody calls and says, "I want an appointment at 11:30," I say, "You can't, because I'm going swimming at 11:30." Or, "I'll be riding my bicycle." And they go, "Shit, she rides a bicycle! Hmmm!"

Part of me wants people to understand that, just like they're not in the dungeon being a slave 24 hours a day, I'm not in my dungeon. I'm not following my partner around with a whip when he's making dinner! That's me. For some people, the full-time life-style might be really wonderful; it's not for me. People who need a standardized [image] of a sadist won't get along with me. People who are willing to be themselves [will]. It's personal chemistry. I think I connect well with masochists and submissive masochists. I don't believe there are very many slaves out there. I believe there [are] trainable submissives.

Being a professional dominant is a service to the world--and a valuable service. I do not think that one is like royalty, that things are owed to you. I provide a decent service for the people who need it. Sensory deprivation is a service. Nothing in it is for me. It's all for the client. A lot of people are interested in sensory deprivation, but very few people know how to do it. I see creating a scene that involves sensory deprivation as a service.

Not as many women as I wish [visit] professional dominants. It's mainly men clients. They want to go on a trip. They want [time out] from their normal reality. They want a magic experience, which I equate with shamanic experience.

I get a lot of mail. I ask people to write back after a heavy session so I have a lot of written materials and feedback. [It seems that] people often go into what they call hypnotic trances, altered states. They go inward. I provide a situation [where] they can go inward rather than outward. [This experience is] the opposite of slave service. I [consider myself] like a train conductor: I am the driver; the [bottom is] the train; I [discover] where the track is, and I have to follow it.

[Safety issues are] very complicated. I don't think there's one single answer for this. Knowing the physical condition of the people you play with is very important--are there any sports injuries, old injuries, allergies, phobias, physical limitations? Questions should be asked before one engages in any sort of bondage. [I do] not expect the bottom to remember everything. A lot of people say, "I don't have any problems!" They get on their knees, and five minutes later say, "Mistress, may I please speak," and I say, "Is it about safety?" They say, "Yes." And I say, "What is it?" "My knee's killing me; I really can't stay on my knees." "So how come you didn't tell me earlier?"

[You should] not expect your partner necessarily to be able to give you all of the information right away about [his] body condition. That condition is [critically] important in determining what kind of bondage [will be] done; [this extends to] any sort of play. [One should] not engage in exotic stuff unless you've done your homework [and] research. [It's] common sense: I've never been to school for medicine, but I took CPR and talk to a lot of people [about these issues]. Heavy bondage, sensory deprivation, suspension would not be good for people who have only been playing for a little [while]. It takes a long time to acquire [skills] to do these things. That's why I have a problem with certain videos that show a woman hanging off the floor, suspended only by [her] breasts or wrists. I feel very [strongly] about this, because somebody can go home and create a dangerous situation.

I think that [one must] proceed with caution with heavy play [such as] sensory- deprivation bondage and electro torture and piercing. You're required to gather the right information. There are groups throughout the country that [provide good] information. I really [stress S&M] community involvement, so that you learn. I always learn from others. I also give workshops on the things I [know]. Safety is really important. You cannot just [make a quick list of precautions]: there are so many things to take into consideration.

People introduce you to new interests all the time. When I started, I was only interested in whipping. Little by little, [I was] introduced to things by [the] people that wanted them. [A] bottom or masochist would bring in a new interest, and I would start playing with it and see if I liked it or not. I realized I like a variety of things. That's how corsets came waltzing into my life! [For me] corsets are a [kind] of bondage; [it's] an aesthetic. I enjoy corsetry as a sadist; I enjoy it as a sadistic piece of bondage equipment. And I enjoy the visual.

I like gender-bending rather than complete transformation. I like to see a man in a corset, with his genitals out and some other sort of bondage on him rather [than] full transformation, [which is] not my personal fetish. I like corsets on myself, because it makes my figure look better; I also like the feeling of the corset. There is a confining kind of sexiness to it. Of course, if it's very, very tight, it can make a person [feel] quite helpless. You can't bend too much when you have that [on]. I like putting people in them. I like putting a masochistic female that I play with in [a] corset. I mainly use it for sessions. I do know someone who uses it for body modification. Corset training, [however], is a full-time occupation, and most people who do sessions have a private life!

[What I'd really like people to know about S&M is that] the display--[that which] appears to the outsider--and [the reality are] usually opposites. Somebody [may] seem to be in intense agony, [but] might very well be in intense ecstasy. If somebody is in inescapable bondage [an outsider might think], "Poor them! They're totally helpless!" [But] they might be having a great time, feeling very free about their desire, their emotions, their vulnerability, their catharsis, their sexuality.

Many [people] who like [bondage know that] when you're tied up, you can let the sensation-- whatever it may be: embarrassing, non-embarrassing, erotic, "slutty"--come out, because, as far as your mind is concerned, you're helpless. You can fight it, [but] eventually you have to go with it. [The same is true of] pain. I find bondage to be very helpful in accepting the input; you can travel with it.

In my experience [bondage] is not really for the kind of submissive that would do as he or she is told without bondage. It is for people who will put up resistance--sassy masochists, smart-ass masochists--until it is proven to them through the bondage that it's useless to resist. [Their] minds say, "Oh! Why in the world am I putting all my energy into fighting this? It's going to happen anyway. CLICK!" Then they relax and usually get very turned on, because it's a deep erotic state. Their attention really [goes] into their body.

I do all kinds of bondage. I do a lot of rope bondage. I do a lot of leather bondage, using all kind of leather straps. I do Betty Page-type bondage. I do bondage that takes people's body shape and body limitations, fears and phobias into consideration. I do all kinds of different bondage tricks. Bondage grows on you. Somebody starts [out] only wanting their hands behind their back; three years later [they] might be really interested in being completely restrained, not being able to move anything.

I advertise sensory deprivation. People call and ask, "Do you have a body bag? Do you have [an] inflatable hood?" And I say, "Yes, I do." As far as I [can tell], most people into sensory deprivation are also interested in sensory overload. I take away as many senses as I can and then, if it's appropriate, overload one sense. I'll start at the top. Earplugs. Blindfold. Gag. Hood. Inflatable hood. Sometimes, inflatable hoods with breathing tubes. Posture collar [to control the] head, the neck, the body. Mummification, with Saran Wrap or an Ace bandage [type] wrap. Body bags. All the bondage [is] put on the body beforehand-- [it could be] tight rope bondage up and down the body. Then a body bag on top of it. Or Saran Wrap. Suspension--suspension [is] always close to the ground but lifted off the floor. Disorientation. Upside-down suspension. Floating suspension. Those [are the things] I'm talking about when I use the phrase sensory deprivation.

[If I use] sensory overload, [it could mean] electricity play, piercing: [a] specific point of overload. I [might] run electricity to the genital area. It could be a heavy whipping, but if people get into a quiet fantasy, I seldom do a heavy whipping [then]. [I might try] sensations of different kinds on the genitals if the session is going to get erotic. If I see the person getting turned on--[and] with a male it's very easy to see--then I [may] either poke a hole in the Saran Wrap or [give] some specific sensation [to] the nipples or the genital area. Or I might not.

[For suspension bondage], I have two winches. I use a lot of rope work [in suspension. It supports] the body at different points so the body weight is as well distributed as possible. I [may] use suspension bars to lift people off the ground by cuffs [secured around their ankles]. I can use two suspension bars and lift them by their feet and hands; [one needs] the proper cuffs. The middle of the body [is] tied to rigging made of [heavy] rope. It is a lot of work. [One should] also use an appropriate piece of equipment, such as [one] we call [a] "panic snap." If you use regular hardware [for suspension], if somebody fainted, you'd have to lift them off! [With a] panic snap you, do not have to lift the weight in order to let [the person] down. There's all kind of [safety equipment].