Originally published in November 2014’s Growing Pains, The Society of Janus honored me with inclusion in their Hall of Fame.  This interview in their bi-monthly newsletter followed.  The second oldest BDSM Organization in the US, Janus lists its membership information at www.soj.org

Interview with Cleo Dubois

Beatrice:

I’d love to know your story, including the Janus pioneers who mentored you, leading to your work now.

Cleo:

I came out into the scene in 1981 after attending Kat Sunlove’s  groundbreaking class at the Gorilla Grotto, experimental storefront bookstore and adult play environment.  My boyfriend Bob thought it might peak my interest!  Mistress Kat’s talk on erotic dominance and hot demo with her sub “mouse” blew my mind. Thank you, Bob, for guessing that kink was my cup of tea! I joined Janus immediately and devoured her weekly S/M column, “The Kat Box,” in the Spectator magazine.

At Janus I met Mark Joplin.  Mark was a queer bisexual cutie. He loved going to baths (read SOMA sex clubs). I loved to hear the stories of his nights of debauchery and wanted to go. He took me to the one place where I could, the Catacombs. For an intimate tour of that legendary private club dedicated to fisting and SM, read Gayle Rubin’s “Temple of the ButtHole” in Mark Thompson’s “LeatherFolk”.

Did not take me long to feel at home in the midst of gay men having big sex. A survivor of abuse, I felt safe in the camaraderie, vibrant energy and wild abandonment of the Catacombs men.  There I reclaimed my sexuality in orgasmic bliss.   Besides my small hands came in really handy, pun intended, with some of the boys!  Few women had been there: Pat Califia, Gayle Rubin, and Dossie Easton & Cheryl Cohen.

And then AIDS hit.  Fred, the owner of the Shotwell Catacombs, closed its doors in 1984 before the health department demanded it.  Fred was a wonderful leatherman, with a big heart and great sense of humor.  I took  my first flogging from him tied to the post in the middle of the playroom. A few years later, he too died of HIV/Aids.

After a while some of the fisters did not want me there on Saturday night. I asked Fred if I could organize parties on Fridays once a month.   He handed me his precious phone list. Mark and I hosted what turned out to be the first mixed play party.

A bit later and renamed SMH Shotwell Meeting House, it became our community center.  Soon Sybil Holiday joined us hosting our monthly Serpent Mountains parties.  Janus also met there.  Allen Selby, Fakir, Pat/rick Califia, Dorothy Allison, Gayle  Rubin, Cynthia Slater , Geoff Mains and Mark I Chester shared their passions, discoveries and sexual politics. I attended every program given by these brilliant pioneers. I will never forget Jay Magus, who just left us, a true magician, Master in service to the Goddess; a twist that resonated with me. His wife Amber who still plays is testimony to the value of community and sex as we age. Cynthia, Janus founder, also inspired me.   And she was a Mistress, “The Mistress.” in fact, as her Spectator ad read.

A lot of us were dedicated to dispelling the bad press that SM was “sick.” I remember a heated Janus discussion. Should we be into B and D instead of SM as that label might scare people away?  Right around that time, the KQED docufilm  “One Foot Out of The Closet “ with Dr. Charles Moser and others SMers aired…only once.

It wasn’t long after that people started dying in horrific numbers…and so very fast.  Being on the front line of that war zone, I would run from hospital to hospital, witnessing young sexy men become sick old men on their death beds in only months…. and attend more and more memorials.

Yet I knew that we needed to keep on playing; we went underground. During these private nights of SM play, a lot of flogging, play piercing and fisting focused on releasing grief, screaming, sobbing goodbye to those we lost.  It just brought us survivors closer.

Mark got the deadly bug too. He and Fakir were friends. They did Growing Pains together.

In 1987 I asked Fakir to make my first body ritual, a ball dance happen.  I needed to dance, cry, scream, shake some grief off my body. Fakir my shaman piercer and Mark my drummer! To complete our ritual, once the piercings were removed Mark fisted me right there lying on a blanket on the ground. You see BDSM was always about sex magic and healing.  Honoring that connection is the work I continue to do now.

Mark died of Aids in ‘88.  Before he passed, he gave me his blessings. Fakir and I had started to date. Officiated by Ganymede and Jim Ward of Gauntlet we tied the knot in 1990 amongst the giant sequoias of Northern California in a big circle of leatherfolk. 25 years ago next August!

.Beatrice:

You’re lucky to have been around in those times, but your experiences  were really challenging as well as rewarding, and that they’ve influenced you so much,  BDSM, kink, spirituality – this whole mix – is exactly what you’re doing now, so it makes perfect sense.  Can you talk a little bit about the shifts in the scene that you’ve seen over the years, and the pioneers and the settlers, and those who are coming into the scene now.

Cleo:

Pioneers blaze trails; they pave the way.  Take Carol Truscott who organized the first Janus contingent to march in the Gay Parade, which is how we called it then. We were received in silence as we walked down Market Street.  We held our heads high and things changed.  The curious found us, bringing in their fantasies and desires.  Master Skip talked about that brilliantly last March, the whole shift from leather to kink.  We are more out, visible on the continuum of light kink to M/s commitments, the same trail the gay movement followed, from Gay being sick before Stonewall to marriage equality. Great. When the scene was underground, we were rebels and activists; it was something special, exciting and edgy… no more, and now it’s all out there good bad beautiful and not so beautiful…

I recently spoke for a conference of about 1,000 people, called the OMxperience, which is a new movement of people seeking connection in sex positive community.  A lot of them are “Burners.” You see, everything crosses over – I went to Burning Man almost at the start, when it was just, say 500 people. So, everything merges, and we are the change we want to see in the world!

What’s going on in the Scene? A.C.T. puts on “Venus in Fur,” which was in New York a couple years ago. Polanski made a film of it.   Fifty Shades, the movie, will be released everywhere on Valentine day 2015. Kink is really out of the closet. We worked on BDSM becoming OK for decades.  Even if it’s lighter, and even though we’re losing some of the stuff that leather has to offer, it still is bringing in a bigger sense of freedom and possibility to peoples’ erotic lives.

People in their 20s and 30s who apply for my Intensives often identify as bi, queer, flexible. They don’t have the lack of sex education, neither do they carry judgments on sexual practices that people my age, or people Fakir’s age often hold.  Things are moving along.  I can only hope that the sense of ritual and sex magic doesn’t get lost. And that is why I keep doing what I do.

Beatrice:

Can you talk about your work with Eve Minax and your private work with couples?

Cleo:

Thirteen years ago, after the success of my docu-film “The Pain Game,” I wanted to create an Erotic Dominance Intensive, with my dear friend Sybil Holiday.  So we did.  Eve Minax took the first course and helped in many that followed.  When Sybil retired, we agreed that Eve was the right person to co-teach.  We complement each other very well.  I’m into SM and ritual and Minax is more into D/s and roleplay.

We keep the Intensives intimate – just eight students at a time – and for those without partners, we provide wonderful volunteer bottoms in service to the work.  The course is hands-on; everybody gets to play.  The exercises are all about energy, integrity and real BDSM skills.  We are into community so our Intensives are at the Citadel!

That work offers a solid base of physical experiences and the confidence that comes with guided practice and honest feedback. We give our students a workbook; no need to take notes. Minax and I have become good friends and love our work together.

I stopped doing professional dominance over 10 years ago.  I learned a lot during my years as a caring sadist.  Now I focus my mentoring on couples of all genders and orientations. I love to work the energy between partners, helping both the Top and the bottom tune in and go deeper in their play.  That private work in my peninsula dungeon is very satisfying, be it with newbies, or people who have been playing for years, hit a boulder in the middle of their journey, and want to start again.  I am very grateful that I can do that.

Beatrice:

You answered a lot of the questions I would have asked. I appreciate also the emotion that you have behind it. The idea of passion and what gives you joy – it can be a throwaway line, but … you know, “this makes me happy,” but … yours comes from such a deep-seated, longstanding place, that it’s so easy to hear the intimacy and genuineness behind it.  Thank you very much for taking the time.

Cleo:

And I thank you.  Just want to add that Cleo Dubois is my dominant persona, and that I value my private bottoming just as much, because one feeds the other.  I want to thank the SF community, my dear husband Fakir and my bi leather family.  Long lives the Society of Janus!

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